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December 28, 2007 10:26 AM

Categories: Sling Media Product Feedback

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TomUT

Member
Joined: 12/28/2007

I would like to relay a major concern with marketing for all Slingbox products.

 There is a huge misrepresentation on what exactly the Slingbox does.

Let me explain what I bought the Slingbox for.  I have a DirecTV HR-20 receiver.  I have another high def TV that currently can only receive a standard def signal from it because it's too far away from the receiver.  My roommate and I also have fairly powerful computers with second displays.  The hope was for both of us to be able to watch whatever is playing on the HR-20 on the second display, and connect a Mac Mini that I have to the second High Def TV. 

First, there is no where on the web page that explains true limitations, nor is there anything in the product documentation that says only one user can connect at any one time.  There is nothing that explains this on the box either.

It wasn't until I purchased a Pro model with the HD connector, got it home and set up, connected to and configured, and then tried to connect from another computer in my home.  It then complained about another person being connected.  When I put in my adminsitration account on the second computer, it kicked me off of the first.

 Let me say, I understand why.  First, I had no idea about www.slingcommunity.com until I Googled about only one person being able to connect.  After I read the FAQ (which should be on the main www.slingbox.com page.. not this one), I read the part about only a single user can connect at any one time.  THIS IS A HUGE SHOW STOPPER for me.  Especially if I'm trying to connect from three different computers.  Why is this not specified ANYWHERE on the main page or on the box?

 The second thing.  Why on earth did I spend $50 on a HD connector only to have it broadcast in Standard Definition? This is another problem.  All over it says it supports HD.  It is not very forthcoming on the webpage.  There is no where you can find any tech specs on the web page or documentation.

These two reasons really make this product not work for me.  I might've let the HD thing slide if I could even connect to it from two computers.  I read up in a few threads. People are explaining that it doesn't have the power for more than one computer to connect.  Well, let me tell you why it does:

Ever heard of multicasting? If you're concerned about power, support a way for clients to get some feed back to the slingbox and use multicasting, or just set a bitrate.  One stream, multiple viewers.  In my case, what's the difference of having me at my computer and my roommate at his computer, as opposed to us sitting down in front of the TV? Oh yeah.. it's more convenient.  There will be one stream to process.  All packets can stay encrypted (because Slingbox seems to be hellbent on that).  And even better, for legal reasons, ISPs won't rebroadcast multicast packets.  They would only make it very far on a private network.  And if you don't want that to happen, set the TTL on the packets to 0 so as soon as they hit a router, they die.  Sounds easy enough.

At any rate, because of the lack of information and making the leap of faith on having the Slingbox support what I am after, and being terribly dissappointed, I will be taking it back, even at a loss if I have to.   I will be building my own streaming server.  Not do anything illegal like broadcasting to other people in the world.  It seems so trivial to have a product that would allow multiple connections and in high def on a local network.  But thanks Sling Media, for letting me be truely dissapointed in your product and your marketing.

 -Tom

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Comments 1-7 of 7 | Latest Comment

December 28, 2007 12:00 PM

Hi Tom,

Isn't it great that this is a place where, for good or bad, we can all voice our opinions? You've tactfully stated your thoughts, and I have no doubt your feedback is valuable to those at Sling. I hope they see your thread here.

As a long time Sling owner, I won't disagree with you on many of your points. Many of us here have been clamoring for in network multi-casting for some time. I do hope it's a feature they implement at some point in the future. It would be great for around the house. I'm not so sure doing HD in network is trivial. If it was, I'm pretty sure they would have added that ability by now. 

The benefits of the HD Connect on the PRO have been debated numerous times. The use of the word "HD" seems to be the hot button. Some feel this word is okay since it does allow you to connect to 720p and 1080i sources. Others feel that the word "HD" should not be used since the box downscales internally. I see both sides of this argument, though I (personally) don't think Sling is misrepresnting their product, however I do think it should say something on the box. 

There are other benefits to using the HD Connect, depending on the type of HD source you have. I've written about them here: http://www.slingcommunity.com/article/15267/First-Look--Slingbox-PRO-HD-Perfo...

Not all may be applicable to you. Again, it depends on the rest of your equipment. 

Enjoy the SlingCommunity!

Mind Over Matt'er - Technology musings, opinion, and more straight from TechLore's head geek.

December 28, 2007 12:52 PM

I don't care if they use the term HD.  Don't say "It supports HD" because that leaves a lot of assumptions flying in the air.  My whole point to this post is that the marketing in general leaves a lot of assumptions.  Clear up the assumptions.  I have absolutely no problems with them saying that is supports HD sources as long as they clearly state that it will not output HD on the Sling Client.  I just said it in one sentance.  Why can't Sling Media? And while they're at it, clearly document that the Slingbox allows one person to connect.

I made the mistake of assuming the obvious and I was let down.  That's what I'm trying to say.  I was thinking about this.  Someone could cleary state to me "why would you assume that?" My response would be because there is absolutely nothing to lead me in any other direction.  If I read "supports HD" and there's no further information, what would ANYONE assume? If it says you can watch TV from a remote location over a network connection, why should I not assume that two people wouldn't be able to connect to it?

December 28, 2007 2:36 PM

Basically what you're saying is that Sling Media needs to clarify the features and benefits of the product given how it works on the box, not just on their website. 

Since it's been a while since I've looked at the product box, I managed to find the box for my PRO and HD Connect cable. You know what? You're right... it's not very clear. If I were going to purchase Slingbox based solely on what it says on the box, I see many making the same assumptions. The box should be clearer on what the HD Connect does and that only one user can connect at a time. 

In my case, I probably would not have assumed that multicasting is possible. Given the language and description on the PRO box (the references to "you" in the singular form), I read it as a personal device intended for an individual. However, that's splitting hairs. I agree; why not make it clearer?

Now, I probably would have made the same assumption you did about the HD Connect. I doubt they intend for the packaging to be intentionally misleading, but based on the information given, it does give the impression of a full high-definition experience. I'll admit my product boxes are older and wouldn't take into account any changes they may have recently made to the product packaging. Does anyone have a box that states anything different from what TomUT or I have on the boxes we encountered? I don't have a box for the SOLO. Does that say anything different on it (just curious).

Mind Over Matt'er - Technology musings, opinion, and more straight from TechLore's head geek.

December 28, 2007 3:40 PM

Matt, Their website isn't clear either. I scoured it trying to find the details I was looking for and couldn't find anything. There's a funny guy that talks about how cool it is.. and some other stuff in a not so useful FAQ but it wasn't actually until I experienced the single user limitation first hand, Googled single user limitations relating to the slingbox, and found the FAQ on this page when I saw anything that actually said "one user only." It was also after that point that I found posts where people were complaining that the rez was only 640x480, and not the HD that I feel I was mislead to believe I would be experiencing.

Regarding multicasting, I didn't know if it would do it or not. Again, there were not technical specs on the thing, on their web page or otherwise. If it used unicasting, how often do you know of something that would accept incoming connections to limit the connections to one? I thought about it. It seems like most things that serve up content would likely support more than one if it's just sending the packets. why not send enough for two streams? I thought that if there was bandwidth available, which there is in my house (a 1Gbps network) then I would probably be fine. But again, an assumption. One that had no information to clear it up.

I don't mean to keep bitching about it. Regardless of how unhappy I am about how misleading it was in my opinion, I am taking it back to the store to get my money back, to spend on something that will do what I'm after. I am posting this to help anyone else that might be in the same situation, or even better, to get Sling Media to get some technical people involved in getting a little bit of helpful information put on their website and product packaging so that it doesn't mislead people to buy their products only to be greatly disappointed, as I have done.

December 28, 2007 7:35 PM

Hi Tom,

This is an issue that we struggle with regularly.  How much information to make available on product packaging. With the regulations and limitations imposed by many of the larger merchants, there is a finite amount of data available to place on our packaging.

To specifically answer your HD question here's what's going on inside the Slingbox SOLO.  Up to a 1080i frame is captured, anamorphically scaled to a SD frame, compressed using SlingStream protocols (VC1 with a proprietary control layer), transmitted to the receiving device, decoded into a SD frame, anamorphically scaled to a 1080i aspect frame and played back through SlingPlayer.  Is the final output 1080i from a SOLO, no is the short answer.  It does however preserve the 16:9 aspect ratio and depending on the network connectivity will deliver around 6 or 7 Mbps of video data.

If you want to fully preserve the 1080i signal you MUST run the compression scheme against a full HD capture buffer which the SOLO can not do because there are not enough processor cycles in the DSP (a soon to be announced product will however) AND your device on the other end has to have enough horsepower to decode the full 1080i frame.

We don't try to hide this information, but we try very hard to make our products easy to understand.  This kind of detail would be lost on the vast majority of our consumers, and ends up confusing more people than it helps.  Part of the reason this forum exists is to provide a way for technically advanced users like yourself to get the details.

We tried a year ago providing a "geek speak" section on our web site to explain a lot of this detail, but virtually no one ever visited it so with the latest web revisions it was left out.

Your questions and statements about multicasting are all technically correct.  It's easy to do - although with multicasting you lose the SlingStream benefits of dynamically adjusting the compression to maximize image quality over variable bandwidth environments because the compression scheme has to default to the lowest quality stream available.  The primary reason we chose not to offer multicasting is a legal question.  In today's world of VOD/PPV, multicasting represents a legal/cost risk to the MSO's around the world.  To provide better integration with their services and more importantly transit over their networks we chose to not implement multicasting on the Slingbox.

We offer a 30 day return guarantee to all of our customers and resellers, so please feel free to return your Slingbox to your place of purchase.  If you have any problems please don't hesitate to contact us.

I hope this provides some insight into what decisions we've made and why.

Happy New Year!

Rich Buchanan
VP Marketing
Sling Media

Rich Buchanan
Marketing Dude

December 29, 2007 6:39 PM

Rich,

Thanks for the reply.

I took the SlingBox Pro and the HD Connect back to Best Buy and got 100% of my money back.

I understand some of the reasons. Legal reasons should not be reason enough to not offer multicast, for the "geek users". There are a lot of us. If we have a network and want to watch it at a set bit rate, offer multi-cast with a set bit rate, set the TTL on the packets to 0, leave everything encrypted, and call it a day. How could there be legal ramifications with that? No one will be able to get the multi-cast packets over the Internet. ISPs don't rebroadcast them. So everyone watching will be on the local network. Especially if you put the TTL to 0. Then it'll hit a router and immediately get thrown in to the bit bucket. I'm just trying to offer a suggestion. I hate for legal ramifications to be issues to not offer cool features. I think there are enough ways around them to be worth doing.  We all understand there will be differences in function. Again, make them known for the geek users.  It can even be a more advanced semi-hidden feature.  Don't limit your product.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... Don't dumb down the web page because you guys assume that users are dumb. Look at Apple. You can throw up ALL tech specs on a "tech specs" page. The people that want to see it will see it. The people that want to glaze over it will do that. When I clicked on the tech specs on your web page and saw "HD component support with resolution up to 1080i," what am I supposed to assume?

When I click on tech specs, I expect to see tech specs. Not that I'm a customer of yours anymore. I really would've liked to see that it supports 1 user connecting at a time, and the HD Connect does nothing but give you anamorphic 16x9 in a standard defenition resolution.

Have you guys actually had problems with people having too much information? And why don't you list these things in the FAQ on the web page? And why do you assume that people will be able to find www.slingcommunity.com before they buy your product?

Anyway, I wish you guys luck. But I guarantee if you don't offer these details, you'll have many more dissappointed ex-customers.

-Tom

December 30, 2007 12:02 AM

Tom,

Sorry you are disappointed with the product. I think Rich did a great job of explaining a lot of what goes into the marketing and product thought of the Slingbox. A lot of what he said, I had not known before.

In terms of documentation or specs on SlingMedia's website - I agree with you. They are far too scant and I find myself looking there sometimes for things and find nothing useful. They are truly dumbed down and I hate that. Most of the people who purchase a Slingbox are techie or have techie friends. So the specs shouldn't scare them. People who I explain the product to who aren't techie get scared by what I say in the first place. And they aren't geek enough to want to view their TV remotely anyhow! :)

So sorry it didn't work for you.

Slinging w/ Catcher, ProHD, Pro, Solo, AV, and a Classic. 3 Replays, Roku Photobridge and a Roku Soundbridge, AppleTV, Vudu, and TivoHD. www.na9d.net Follow me on Twitter

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Back to Top | Comments 1-7 of 7 | Latest Comment

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